After 70 years I have come to the view that all forms of ideology are control mechanisms and nothing more. This applies to religion, politics, and economics. I fail to see how all the vast complexity , creativity, intelligence and spiritual experience can be distilled down to a choice between left or right, red or blue, my god or your god. Speaking specifically about religion I have a spiritual life that is far closer to Spinoza’s god in nature as one than anything else. This makes me a deist in some minds and bound for a hell that does not exist. We must all find our own way to truth and peace.
My dad is a retired pastor, and very conservative politically (but thankfully he drew the line at Trump). Funnily enough, my parents taught us true Christian values despite having views that obviously don’t align. They act surprised when their children support people of different background or religion, that some of us are pro choice and believe in the right to love whomever you want.
I’m thankful every day that they supported our education and taught us to love thy neighbor instead of forcing their own indoctrination down our throats.
The fact that you’re coming to this of your own volition is something to be proud of.
Ipse dixit: You said it yourself..meaning a statement based on one's own authority. i.e. opinion, without evidence or fact. You said: "To me, MAGA-thinking is a betrayal of every Christian principle." What does that mean? Operationalize it. What is it they think ---or you believe they think --- that is not Christian? How much, and what kind of evidence will you accept, that would make you change your mind about their thinking? To clarify your confusion, which seems to be troubling you, why not make a list of those thoughts you believe they think, and list the Christian principles they violate.
You write literary analysis (engage brain, compare style, authors, vocabulary, peel back layers and observe, interpret sub-texts, reach conclusions based on reading evidence, etc.) well. To do that, you must read a text objectively within parameters of your feelings about thing like grammar, tastes, and tropes, conventions, eras, etc. So, making a list, and checking it twice, ought to be an easy task.
It would certainly be a good exercise in intellectual honesty, and you don't have to show the list anyone.Because here's the thing: you are assuming you know what MAGA-people think, and you could be wrong. It's an unpleasant thought for someone comfortable with their writing prowess, to acknowledge that possibility. Although, I'm not a Freudian, I do see the validity in concepts such as projection, displacement, and other mental gymnastics we use to hide from ourselves.
As you remember, this first post was copied from a note I shared. It began with the statement, if you're MAGA, you won't like this. You don't have to read. That was meant as a kindness. So it is with the inclusion of "to me"... I'm softening the language with an offering of subjectivity. I didn't overlook the subjectivity, I pointed it out.
I've decided to start a newsletter so I can pursue the subject further. I'll be doing that on my terms though. Some of the work you assume I haven't done doesn't make sense if you remember that I was a pastor for 20 years and Republican-voting conservative for 30 years. I listened to Rush Limbaugh of all things. --- I am not a life-long Democrat who imagines the other side to believe things that they don't believe. I will be talking about a world I lived in.
Now there are factors of the other side that are unknown to me because I was never MAGA. I began the process of breaking away in 2016 during Trump's first campaign.
As I begin, I will talk about the some of the history that brought us to this place, especially related to the role of the church. Where it will go from there, we will just have to wait and see.
I certainly agree with your statement about the evangelical churches being to blame for much of the debacle American society is dealing with now, by the way. But the term ‘MAGA-thinking” seemed uncharacteristically vague for someone as precise as you and got me wondering what you mean by it being non-Christian. —given many of things people believe Christians think without consideration of the wide range of both political and spiritual thinking in a society like ours.
Off the top of my head, I couldn’t think of anything un-Christian about the MAGA movement. I know there’s a political divide over deportation, but religion-izing the issue seems like a political ploy given that every country on earth reserves the right to exercise its sovereignty regarding citizenship.
Although I have never been a pastor, I, too, struggle with what the role is of traditional “Christianity” and it’s absolutism and contradictions, especially after the demise of Roman Catholicism; its errors are so blatant, its stunning. For example, the PERPETUAL virginity of Mary. If Jesus is true God and true man, Mary’s hymen wouldn’t be intact and what’s so bad about that? An immaculate conception I can handle, but being pregnant and having a baby appear in a golden shower rather than Mary having labor pains? Oh, c’'mon!
I admire your willingness to share your journey because you can clarify your position on such weighty, personal issues, and many people can’t communicate their position on anything so close to the bone. My question about evidence had a personal agenda: I’d like to know how other people figure things out and what it takes for them to change their positions on a lot of things.
After 70 years I have come to the view that all forms of ideology are control mechanisms and nothing more. This applies to religion, politics, and economics. I fail to see how all the vast complexity , creativity, intelligence and spiritual experience can be distilled down to a choice between left or right, red or blue, my god or your god. Speaking specifically about religion I have a spiritual life that is far closer to Spinoza’s god in nature as one than anything else. This makes me a deist in some minds and bound for a hell that does not exist. We must all find our own way to truth and peace.
Religion and politics are moral except when they meet behind their spouses backs.
My dad is a retired pastor, and very conservative politically (but thankfully he drew the line at Trump). Funnily enough, my parents taught us true Christian values despite having views that obviously don’t align. They act surprised when their children support people of different background or religion, that some of us are pro choice and believe in the right to love whomever you want.
I’m thankful every day that they supported our education and taught us to love thy neighbor instead of forcing their own indoctrination down our throats.
The fact that you’re coming to this of your own volition is something to be proud of.
I’ll say it again like I did on the original Note: excited to read more about your journey!
Food for Thought:
Ipse dixit: You said it yourself..meaning a statement based on one's own authority. i.e. opinion, without evidence or fact. You said: "To me, MAGA-thinking is a betrayal of every Christian principle." What does that mean? Operationalize it. What is it they think ---or you believe they think --- that is not Christian? How much, and what kind of evidence will you accept, that would make you change your mind about their thinking? To clarify your confusion, which seems to be troubling you, why not make a list of those thoughts you believe they think, and list the Christian principles they violate.
You write literary analysis (engage brain, compare style, authors, vocabulary, peel back layers and observe, interpret sub-texts, reach conclusions based on reading evidence, etc.) well. To do that, you must read a text objectively within parameters of your feelings about thing like grammar, tastes, and tropes, conventions, eras, etc. So, making a list, and checking it twice, ought to be an easy task.
It would certainly be a good exercise in intellectual honesty, and you don't have to show the list anyone.Because here's the thing: you are assuming you know what MAGA-people think, and you could be wrong. It's an unpleasant thought for someone comfortable with their writing prowess, to acknowledge that possibility. Although, I'm not a Freudian, I do see the validity in concepts such as projection, displacement, and other mental gymnastics we use to hide from ourselves.
As you remember, this first post was copied from a note I shared. It began with the statement, if you're MAGA, you won't like this. You don't have to read. That was meant as a kindness. So it is with the inclusion of "to me"... I'm softening the language with an offering of subjectivity. I didn't overlook the subjectivity, I pointed it out.
I've decided to start a newsletter so I can pursue the subject further. I'll be doing that on my terms though. Some of the work you assume I haven't done doesn't make sense if you remember that I was a pastor for 20 years and Republican-voting conservative for 30 years. I listened to Rush Limbaugh of all things. --- I am not a life-long Democrat who imagines the other side to believe things that they don't believe. I will be talking about a world I lived in.
Now there are factors of the other side that are unknown to me because I was never MAGA. I began the process of breaking away in 2016 during Trump's first campaign.
As I begin, I will talk about the some of the history that brought us to this place, especially related to the role of the church. Where it will go from there, we will just have to wait and see.
I certainly agree with your statement about the evangelical churches being to blame for much of the debacle American society is dealing with now, by the way. But the term ‘MAGA-thinking” seemed uncharacteristically vague for someone as precise as you and got me wondering what you mean by it being non-Christian. —given many of things people believe Christians think without consideration of the wide range of both political and spiritual thinking in a society like ours.
Off the top of my head, I couldn’t think of anything un-Christian about the MAGA movement. I know there’s a political divide over deportation, but religion-izing the issue seems like a political ploy given that every country on earth reserves the right to exercise its sovereignty regarding citizenship.
Although I have never been a pastor, I, too, struggle with what the role is of traditional “Christianity” and it’s absolutism and contradictions, especially after the demise of Roman Catholicism; its errors are so blatant, its stunning. For example, the PERPETUAL virginity of Mary. If Jesus is true God and true man, Mary’s hymen wouldn’t be intact and what’s so bad about that? An immaculate conception I can handle, but being pregnant and having a baby appear in a golden shower rather than Mary having labor pains? Oh, c’'mon!
I admire your willingness to share your journey because you can clarify your position on such weighty, personal issues, and many people can’t communicate their position on anything so close to the bone. My question about evidence had a personal agenda: I’d like to know how other people figure things out and what it takes for them to change their positions on a lot of things.
If you share here on substack, I will too.